A meticulous detail on how men and women are thought from psychoanalysis is the core of the research carried out by psychoanalysts Marina Esborraz Y Luciano Lutereau in the digital book The comedy of the sexes. “Analysis is the first clinical method that was invented to go against patriarchy and its effects “both write. “The castration complex does not have to do with the presence or absence of a penis, but with the fact that the sexed difference is registered in terms of the woman’s guilt: if she is castrated, it is because she did something wrong.” And they do not save on criticism of his profession: “The deconstructed analyst is more moralistic than all Freudian prejudices put together.” In addition to being a psychoanalyst, Esborraz has a degree in Psychology from the University of Buenos Aires and a professor in the department of Psychopathology II at the UBA Lutereau is a psychoanalyst, Doctor of Psychology and Doctor of Philosophy from the UBA, where he is also a teacher, and coordinates the Degree in Philosophy at UCES.

One of the themes is the fear of losing love. Is it something inherent to the human being or is it lived differently according to gender? Esborraz considers both positions to be true. “Love itself requires the presence of the other. Correspondence is expected. Many times conflicts arise because the correspondence is not symmetrical. There is never complete symmetry in love, but there is a point where Freud refers to the anguish over the loss of love and that places him more on the feminine side because he poses it as the equivalent of what in man he calls ‘castration anxiety’ “. Esborraz says that there are different versions of what the loss of love implies, be it from a feminine or masculine position. “It is possible to live as it is lived in the different subjects, men or women, the mourning for the loss of a love. In the man, it is to lose someone, to lose something, if we speak as love beyond a person in particular. And in women it often happens that when losing a love it is as if they lost the sense of love. At that point, we can read the difference in that sense, “says Esborraz.

-You say something strong: that you can only love a man and that men do not love women but want them. How is this evidenced?

-It’s not that men don’t love women. That phrase starts from some hypotheses that we established in another book, Love a man. The intention was to de-essentialize the male-female, male-female question and raise the issues around conflicts between love and desire. We start from an idea that Freud puts as a concept: libido is male. Then, when you love, you love a man. In fact, when the child loves the mother, he also loves her as a phallic mother and that later has to fall. What is desired is an object that causes desire. And in those terms we put that object of desire is feminine. Loving a man and desiring a woman is not in the sense of male and female as entities but in terms of the conflict between love and desire. The difference between love and desire is that love requires the presence of the other. The wish can also be realized in absentia. In other words, the desire can be realized in fantasies, it does not require the presence of the other. In fact, desire is much more associated with the lack. Instead, love is always the need a presence. It is not loved in absentia.

-Is marriage never a friend of desire?

– No, it seems to me that the marriage can be friend of the desire. Over time and over the years, what we call sexual desire can be lost. That is true, but that sexual desire is lost does not imply that eroticism is lost in the couple. I think they are different things. One thing is sexual desire and another is to be able to maintain eroticism, which does not happen only because of what happens in bed. But it doesn’t seem to me that marriage is necessarily the enemy of desire. Each one will perhaps find different ways to maintain the desire in a marriage, especially after many years. But there is also a question of how sexuality and desire are experienced at 20, at 30, at 40, beyond being in a couple or not. Also many times we are used to thinking about sexuality and eroticism in our youth. Surely, it is not exactly the same at 40, at 50 than at 20, where eroticism passes more through the word, through a conversation, through something else, not through the imprint of seduction.

-Is beauty in women measured from other ideals than in men?

-Yes, totally. It is a complex issue beauty in women. It is assumed that what gives women some meaning, the phallic glow, in man that phallic glow is not required through his body and his image. In man it is required to demonstrate potency. In other words, at some point it is enough to affirm itself in certain virile position. In women, everything is always a little more enigmatic. So, beauty is a point that is required of women and many women are very affirmed at that point of seduction by beauty. And when the years go by that obviously some of that falls, this can be very distressing. We see it. In other words, how to continue affirming oneself at that point to establish a bond with the other only with beauty. Furthermore, we know that it is a requirement quite strong in societies.

-You point out that the man who is in a relationship and is, at the same time, with other women, has an adolescent attitude. Is it so so?

-It is not a moralistic position, that it is wrong to act like a teenager. What we are saying is that many times the seduction of another comes to the place of avoiding feeling jealous. So, to avoid feeling jealous, what do I do? I seduce another. So, it’s like transferring that jealousy to the other person. That is an attitude that we could say quite youthful because what I try is that in order not to be the jealous one I dedicate myself to seducing. In general, many times these other seductions are not materialized or lead to a receptive encounter. Just know if I can generate an interest in the other. For this reason, it is often seen in adolescents when, due to a disappointment with the person they are with or when the relationship ends, the first thing they do, especially men, is to go out to find other women.

-You point out a forceful phrase: “To be mature is to be able to suffer for love with dignity.”

-Yes, because going back to teenagers, when there is a fight in a couple, they begin to show themselves on social networks at night, in underwear or that type of action, or make calls at 3 in the morning. All a type of attitudes that over time give a bit of shame. If you think about it a bit, they are actions that are out of dignity. Of course we have all suffered or can suffer from love, from disappointments, from disappointment, from frustration. Now, there are different ways to suffer. In other words, there are also people who carry out acts of revenge with the other, which is also a quite unworthy way of experiencing a loss. Then we can suffer with dignity, without committing those acts that later leave us in a shameful position.

* To obtain The comedy of the sexes can be consulted here.